SV-EC Committee Meeting Monday Jun 25 2007 11:00am - 1:00pm PST With the new calculations for voting rights below... 3/4 rule = .75 * 22 = 16 (1212020201020201013112) Day (4815936048825059560415) (0000111111000000000000) Month (8899001122112233444566) (0000000000000000000000) Year (6666666666777777777777) ------ Attendees --------- (-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-AAA) Arturo Salz 20 (--AAA-AAAAAAA-AAAAAAAA) Cliff Cummings 18 (AAAAAAA-AAAAAAAAAAAAAA) Dave Rich 21 (AA-A-AAA-AAAAAAA---AAA) Francoise Martinolle 16 (-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-A) Mehdi Mohtashemi 20 (AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA) Neil Korpusik 22 (AAAAAAAAAA-AAAAAAAAAAA) Ray Ryan 21 (AAAAAAAAAAAA-AAA---AAA) Gordon Vreugdenhil 18 (AAAAAA--AAAAA-A--AAAAA) Steven Sharp 17 (--AAAA-A--------------) Phil Moorby 05 - No voting rights (---AA-AAA-AAAA-AA-A---) Doug Warmke 12 - No voting rights (AAAAAAA---AA-A-AAAAAAA) Stu Sutherland 17 (-AAAA--AAAA-A-AAAAA-AA) Heath Chambers 16 (-AAAAAA-A----AAAAAAAAA) Don Mills 17 (--AA--A---A-AAA--A-AAA) Jonathan Bromley 11 (--A-------------------) Logie Ramachandran 01 - No voting rights (----AAA---------------) Melvin 03 - No voting rights (-----A-AAAAAA-AAAAAAAA) Mark Hartoog 15 (-------A-------------A) Satia (from Intel) 02 - No voting rights (--------AAA-----------) Rob Slater 03 - No voting rights (-------------A--------) Alex Gran - Mentor 01 - No voting rights (---------------A-AAA-A) Mike Mintz 05 (------------------AAAA) Geoffrey Coram 04 (-------------------AAA) David Scott - Mentor 03 16 people (other than the chair) currently have voting rights ** Minutes taken by Neil Korpusik Mehdi was not on the call, Neil acted as chair. ////////////////// June 25, 2007 ///////////////////////// 1. Review IEEE patent policy ------------------------ ref: http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt Move: Cliff - Assume that the patent policy was read Second: Mark Abstain: None Opposed: None Passed unanimously 2. Review meeting minutes/Notes: -------------------------------- June 11th, 2007 [AI: Mehdi will post minutes of last three sessions on the sv-ec site] Move: Gord - approve meeting minutes of June 11th 2007 Second: Heath Abstain: None Opposed: none Passed The number to call for the meeting is always on the agenda. 3. Discussion on Merged LRM 1800-2008 Draft3 Sections have been assigned for review Gord - Will take time away from tackling larger issues. Stu - draft 4 Oct 1st (aug 1st freeze date for this) Aug 15th champions Sep 1st p1800 meeting Cliff - sv-bc is still working on their reviews Dave - draft 3a - tables are numbered globally. Stu - he can fix this (Dave will send an email) Neil - The last day is mid-November. AI:Mehdi - post the review assignments on the sv-ec minutes web page. 3A. meeting times for the next few sessions: keep the 2-week period, next meeting July 9th. 4. Email vote results - 1789, 1857, 1371 1789 passed and the others failed Cliff ok with the latest proposal for 1789? Cliff - 1789 is ok with the latest proposal ***** - 1789 is passed (from last meeting) 1857: Neil: sent a summary of feedback by 1371 - Dave - last updated on June 22 - removed the sentence fragment - updated spelling and font issues Cliff - didn't add extra sentence if no initial blocks inside program blocks. Jonathan - didn't think any additional details are required. Cliff - his suggested addition - he wasn't sure it was true. - second large new paragraph - Is it clear what a decendent thread is? Dave - child and parent threads Jonathan - what about the word terminate? e.g. the first para in the second section. Gord - there are a lot of possible issues with terminology. Steven - section on threads talks about those created by fork. Gord - section on processes is where a lot of that should be addressed. Steven - should we change the language to disable fork? Cliff - From "If there is at least..." To "When there is at least..." Neil - issue with one sentence From: "... may terminate the threads of all initial..." To: "... may terminate the threads of all its initial..." Jonathan - noted some font issues - stu to address. Arturo - what about this case? module initial disp foo $exit() display (bar) - both displays are issued? (yes) - symmetry issue, if copy module to a program block. Gord - get different behavior. Arturo - maybe there should be a note? Move: Dave - approve the 1371 proposal with friendly amendment add its before initial work Second: Neil Abstain: None Opposed: none Unanimously approved 1857: Cliff - there was a lot of email on this one. Gord - so far - implementation people - no question that there is an issue that needs to be resolved. Some proposals are introducing new syntax. Now down to a discussion of which form we want to take. - no agreement yet on the form 1-4 - solutions are ok for Gord 5 - Gord is opposed 6 Mike - likes solution 4 the best Jonathan - namespace idea, tcl namespace concept Gord - that would be a larger change than what we are looking for - AOP may have an impact on decisions in that area. - Not ready to commit to a name space yet. Steven - "extern class" - this may solve it. extern class { .... } Mike - if the method is long, you can get lost - parser needs that you are going down a template rat hole Gord - wants to knnow that inside template syntax in the parser. Neil - if we can have multiple 'extern class' that would address Mike's issue. - Likes this concept. Gord - parameters - if specified they must match the classes - don't need the default Mike - uses an include for the bodies. doesn't think we need word type Gord - extern class name opt_parm_list; one or more methods endclass Jonathan - nesting allowed? seems like that would allow for a lot of confussion Gord - bodies must be in the same scope Steve - class c class d endclass endclass Gord - extern constructs can't be nested. extern must however be nested with the class? When nested classes Steven - wouldn't want the guts of both inner and other classes together. - outer::inner:: otherwise need something like this. Gord - this new approach requires a bunch of more syntax Steven - clearly know that we are inside a scope now back to "normal" syntax objections about irregularits seem to go away Gord - there will still be an irregularity, due to backwards compatibility. Steven - the original approach would be considered a shortcut Jonahtan - has trouble with all of the other proposed syntaxes. - a new piece of syntax is preferable. Mike - likes this form Neil - likes this form as well Steven - can this proposed extern syntax ever appear elsewhere today? - what about class extern versus extern class Jonathan - extern class is preferable Mike - original example, resued T (as a type and a typedef) Jonathan - only allow implementation of extern methods in there Gord - will writeup some example syntax and some rules on what is allowed. - will work on a proposal after he gets feedback from reflector expects that there will be a lot of work. extern class - Mark, Neil, stu - consistent with extern function class extern - Arturo - is a bit concerned about using extern for this. Gord - T in both outer scope and within the class (package) Arturo - :: is used to specify a type from a class C::T Parameter is the only issue we are addressing C::T #(T) // prefers this Doesn't think it is such a big burden to have special syntax for parameters. Would disallow default as being allowed in parameterized extern method. (Mike and gord disallowed due to poly) Gord - C::T usually means value in default specialization special rules for this parameter case - will be confusing doesn't like that there would now be two meanings overloaded syntax that means something else elsewhere Mark - we either need new syntax or must allow special cases Gord - mentioned a possible restrictive form of extern class which could possibly then be relaxed in the future. - a cut-and-based approach with headers Jonathan, Mike - thought this was a good idea. AI: Gord - will send out a proposal - will start actual writeup on Thursday AI: All - send feedback before Thursday 5. Review mantis items with proposals Those that didn't pass in the email votes 1371 Semantic of program block $exit Jun 22 email vote http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001371 All feedback is summarized in the email with the vote results. 1857 Syntax of extern method definition Jun 22 email vote http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001857 All feedback is summarized in the email with the vote results. 1384 bit stream cast and pack/unpack for protected./local members http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001384 - Several changes were discussed in the May 14th conference call - The section numbers need to be updated - Friendly ammendments: From: An associative array or class shall be illegal as a destination type. To: If the type of the destination is an associative array or a class, the operation shall be illegal. From: Reconstruction does not modify any internal properties in the target class object. To: Reconstruction does not modify the internal state of the target class object. From: It shall be illegal to stream a class handle with local or protected members except when streaming the current instance this. To: It shall be illegal to stream a class handle with local or protected members if those members would not otherwise be accessible at the point of use of the streaming operator. Neil: the above are suggested comments and changes, any other issues with these proposals? Dave: have not gotten to this. set for next time AI: Dave - make the changes. 1707 streaming operator should specify which direction slices are taken from http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001707 Jonathan has posted a reference algorithm. Jonathan - what if slice size is less than one. - slize size is irrelevant when going in one direction - had a suggested alternate ordering scheme Arturo - disagrees with the new alg. can't do that - there is symmetry today Jonathan - thinks it doesn't make sense to allow a specifying if it doesn't do anything. Dave - there is padding that can occur if not an exact multiple - thinks it also doesn't make a lot of sense but similar to saying that we don't allow 8 + 0 Jonathan - recanted his objection on this point Arturo - there is an omission on the slice size restriction Jonathan - 11.4.15 - new clause Neil - should reference algorithm be added to the LRM? AI/Jonathan - update the proposal and reference algorith and modify the sections to match with draft3. 1500: Forward typedef of a class is only to declare instances of that type http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001500 Jun 11th, agreed to wait for Mark Hartoog's writeup on type parameters. Mark - is working with arturo on name resolution issues. Gord - forward typede if similar to a type parameter is closely related to name resolution and type parameter resolution. If we want the two to be the same we need to deal with ?'s on type parameters. - doesn'tmake sense to continue with 1500 until we get Mark's writeup. Mark - has a writeup that he wants to discuss with Arturo 1608 equality, inequality and conditional operator rules for class handles http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001608 They went this one after 1609A Dave - update to latest draft Cliff's feedback - I find the verbiage to be confusing. Gord - boils down to a simple idea (common suppertype) 1609 import statements should not be allowed in class scopes http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001609 Neil - cliff is the only one that voted no. - Neil read his question Gord, Mark - the answer to the question is yes. Move: Gord - to approve 1609 proposal Second: Jonathan Abstain: None Opposed: none Passed unanimously 1715 Triggered property of a clocking block http://eda.org/svdb/bug_view_page.php?bug_id=0001715 6. More Mantis items ready for an email vote 7. Discussion: mantis items with no proposal 8. Next meeting: July 9th 2007 Stu, Neil - will miss this week July 23rd 2007 Aug 6th 2007