SV-EC Ballot resolution committee meeting. Monday June 8 2009 11:00am - 1:00pm PDT [ http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_June_8_2009_Minutes.txt ] With the new calculations for voting rights below (rounded)... 3/4 rule = 0.75 * 6 = 4.50 Meeting number: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 0000000 0000000 1123456 Meeting Days: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ (1220100 ) Day (3074118 ) (0000000 ) Month (4445566 ) (0000000 ) Year (9999999 ) ------ Attendees ------------------------------------------------------- (A-AAAAA ) Arturo Salz 6 (A-AAAAA ) Cliff Cummings 6 (AAAAAAA ) Dave Rich 7 (AAAAAAA ) Francoise Martinolle 7 (AAAAAAA ) Mehdi Mohtashemi 7 (AAAAAA- ) Neil Korpusik 6 (AAAAA-- ) Ray Ryan 5 (-AAAA-A ) Gordon Vreugdenhil 5 (AAAAAAA ) Steven Sharp 7 (A-AAAA- ) Stu Sutherland 5 (AAAAA-A ) Heath Chambers 6 (AAAAAA- ) Don Mills 6 (AAAAAAA ) Jonathan Bromley 7 (AAAAAAA ) Mark Hartoog 7 (AAAAA-- ) Tom Alsop 5 (A-A-A-- ) Mike Mintz 3 (AAAAAAA ) David Scott 6 =================================================== v0vvv-v v => voting; - => non voting meetings 11 People have joined the meeting. ** Minutes taken by Jonathan Bromley and Mehdi Mohtashemi ////////////////// June 8, 2009 ///////////////////////// Agenda: 1. Review IEEE patent policy ----------------------------------------- ref: http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt The chair directed everyone's attention to the patent policy. 2. Review meeting minutes/Notes: ------------------------------------------------- Approving minutes: May 4 2009 and May 11 2009, June 1 2009 http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_May_4_2009_Minutes.txt http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_May_11_2009_Minutes.txt http://www.eda.org/sv-ec/Minutes/SV-EC_Meeting_June_1_2009_Minutes.txt Move: Cliff - approve May 4 2009 minutes, Second: Heath Abstain: Oppposed: approved unanimously Move: Cliff - approve May 11 2009 minutes Second: Heath Abstain: Oppposed: approved unanimously Move: Cliff - approve June 1 2009 minutes with friendly amendment; Mark Hartoog asked that his attendance be recorded Second: Jonathan Abstain: Heath, Gordon Oppposed: Minutes approved with 2 abstains. 3. Updates from p1800WG / ------------------------------------------------------ Next p1800WG meeting of June 17 2009. 4. Review email vote (due June 10 2009) issues ------------------------------------------------------ Cliff: one more note, Matt will join to discuss 2380 Mehdi: noted that Mantis items 2744, 1486, 2575 would certainly fail the vote, suggested rescinding the entire email vote. Move: cliff - move that the email vote be cancelled in its entirety Second: Steven Abstain: Opposed: NOTE: The less troublesome items were covered first. In each case the motion was to accept the proposal as listed in the email vote. Mantis 2693 id 138 Move: Cliff - approve 2693 Second: Jonathan Abstain: Opposed: passed unanimously Mantis 2598 id 52,64 Move: Cliff - approve 2598 Second: Steven Abstain: Opposed: passed unanimously NOTE: [this issue was revisited in later discussion - see below] Mantis 2608 id 59 (class parameters, close as duplicate of 2575): Move: Jonathan - approve 2608 Second: Cliff Abstain: Opposed: passed unanimously Mantis 2746 id 113 Move: Cliff - approve 2746 Second: David Abstain: Opposed: passed unanimously Mantis 2749 id 53 (better introduction to local/protected in classes): Jonathan: making a friendly amendment, delete 'so far', Gord: you have to delete the entire first sentence Steven: blue sentence was a replacement of first sentence. moving it from the next paragraph, Arturo: created the new proposal and uploaded it. Move: Arturo, approve 2749, proposal mantis_2749[2].pdf Second: Cliff Abstain: Opposed: passed unanimously Mantis 2750 id 121 Move: Cliff - approve 2750 Second: David Abstain: Opposed: approved unanimously Mantis 2748 id 19 (no change for Preponed PLI region): Move: Cliff Second: Steven Abstain: Opposed: approved unanimously Mantis 2745 id 111 (no change on implicit cross bin): Move: Cliff - approve 2745 Second: David Abstain: Opposed: passed unamiously Mantis 1575 id 105,110 (a net is a valid expression, no change required): Move: Cliff - approve 1575 Second: Arturo Abstain: Opposed: passed unamiously Mantis 2694 id 140 (virtual interface as interface item): resolve as "open", out of scope for this version Move: Cliff Second: Steven Abstain: Opposed: passed unanimously Mantis 2575 id 50,52,55,59,64 (access to calls parameters) NOTE: the title of the ballot issue #55 should be: is a class parameter implicitly "public" and "static"? - All agreed that Shalom Bresticker's suggested correction to the BNF is appropriate; Francoise: I have updated the BNF, this BNF change include class scope, also resolve mantis 2574, 2500 an sv-bc. we need to put bugnotes on those Mantis items to record this resolution Mark: now in bnf it is ok. AI: Jonathan - put bugnotes on those Mantis items to record this resolution. - There was extensive discussion of item 2598. Arturo pointed out that it's complementary to 2575, not covered by it, so we should revisit 2598 to examine its existing proposal. A bugnote should be added to 2598 clarifying that it is not covered by 2575. Further discussion on 2575 pointed out various errata in the proposal; Françoise agreed to update the proposal during the meeting. [NOTE: 2575 is revisited again in this meeting.] Jonathan: Francoise has made a bug note for 2598, use 2575. Francoise: removing the comment on this. Mantis 2598 id 52,64 Move: cliff approve 2598: 'class_param_2.pdf' Second: Francoise Abstain: Opposed: Arturo: Stu mentioned on this editorial. Francoise: Shalom made a bug note to this. Mantis 1486 id 190 Gord: it should be ok to accept it Jonathan: dynamic processes is discussed, so it is reasable to change it to dynamic processes. Steve: also my comment. Arturo: does it imply only dynamic processes can be stopped or started. Gord: it is clears the other ones can be done as well. Jonathan: it does mention thread, also processes without ending. static threads can not be created at the beginning. Move: Jonathan - accept proposal 1486-proposal-v1a.pdf Second: Steven Abstain: Opposed: approved unanimously Mantis 2744 id 109 Cliff: we wanted to know what is this. Gord: there is nothing specific to covergroup. Jonathan: can we add a bugnote, explaining this decision. NO Change is required. Move: Gordon [no change is required] Second: David Abstain: Opposed: approved unanimously AI: Jonathan - for 2744 add a bug note explaining this action. Back to Mantis 2575, Francoise updated new proposal. Francoise: err_2575-v4.pdf is the new file Move: Jonathan moves to approve err_2575-v4.pdf Second: Francoise Abstain: Opposed: passed unanimously 5. Other ballot issues ------------------------------------------------------ Mantis 2711 id #107 David: addressed Steven and Arturo's concern, Arturo: friendly amendment, change 'shall' to 'is' in the sentence: making it 'behaviour is undefined' Move: David - friendly amendment, shall to is Issue107-Mantis2711-3.pdf (changes is done) Second: Jonathan Abstain: Opposed: approved unanimously NOTE: At this time Matt Maidment, sv-bc chair, joined sv-ec meeting, for the discussion on 2380. Mantis 2380 id #33,34,56 Jonathan: extensive email discussion, assignment compatiblity issues. new proposal is there, a few hours ago. Arturo: only improvement would be MDarray, you should use foreach. Jonathan: automate copying the array, clearly . Matt: BC primarily to relax the equivalence, TB side in Design side, relaxing it will push the checking to different tools. changing this behaviour is not desired from design side Jonathan: some contradiction: back to 1800-5 position, must be equivalent type. Dave: in TestBench usage are more or less one-dimensional second proposal in 2380 is a compromise, closing the loophole opened by 1474. Arturo: this resolves in reasonable manner. Jonathan: issues may come up within in LRM - All agreed to pospone it to later email vote. AI: Mehdi - put mantis 2380 for email vote. Mantis 2738 id #115 Move: Arturo mantis_2738.pdf Second: Cliff Abstain: Opposed: passed unanimously Mantis 2692 id #79 (default arguments in extern subprogram and its body): Cliff: defalut argument values, Steven: defaults must exactly match (see his bugnote 8437) - relaxation may be beneficial but isn't necessary at this stage, so ballot comment can be rejected. Dave: it is asking for clarification, we can quote the text, biggest problem would arise if a user specified some but not all the prototype's defaults in its body. notes that the ballot comment is not asking for enhancement but only for clarification, so no change is needed - we can point to existing LRM text and bugnote 8437. Move: Dave - no action on 2692, No change is required, comments in the bugnote Second: Mark Abstain: Opposed: passed unanimously AI: Steven - for 2692: to copy-and-paste critical parts of that text to a new bugnote. Mantis 2606 id #62 Gord/Francoise Mantis 2607 id #63 Gord/Francoise Francoise: 2606 need guidance how to resolve name declaration. how do we resolve these names, Gord: anything that feels as forward reference to a type is not ok. asked should we insist on #() to denote the default specialization of a parameterized forward class definition? Cliff: example 3 the same? Gord: example 3 is not a problem, extern refers to T inside T, function body should resolve inside the class. Cliff: example 1 ok, Gord: it depends wether you state what the position of the body is, body at end of class, example 1 is legal, binds to the type in the class scope. example 2 would be illegal. Arturo: how do you detect the error Gord: matter of which one the protopye name is bound to Jonathan: even in example 1, real issue, first outside of class, Mark: i do not think it is implementable, it is very complex, c++ programers, they would expect to access those parameters. Gord: describing what the believes the rules are here, could we specify that all typedefs must precede method prototypes in the class? Not if code constructed by macros. NOTE: There was extended discussion of Mantis 2606 on how to resolve the examples offered by Françoise. Francoise: need to decide whatever is good for both users and implementation. Cliff: I would like to have standard to move, even if it is not in this par do not want to see standard delay. NOTE: Need to have proposals on the above 2, AI: Francoise - proposals for 2606, 2607 Mantis 1517 id #189 Dave has proposal Mantis 2715 id #21 Steven has proposal NOTE: To give time for adequate discussion of this, it was suggested that a shortened email vote be held on items 2380, 2715 and 1517. Move: Françoise to hold a 3 day email ballot voting for the above 3 mantis. Second: Jonathan Abstain: none Opposed: none passed unanimously. AI: Mehdi - place 2380, 1517, 2715, for email vote, shortened, due June 11, NOTES: Gord will not be here next week, does not have much time beyond Tuesday this week. Will most likely provide a proxy for next meeting. Mantis 1721 id #188 Dave 6. Next meetings in 2009 ----------------------------------------------------- Monday June 15 2009 11:00-1:00pm === action items list below is provided for members reference === not part of official meeting minutes ================= Action item list provided for sv-ec =================== ============ from June 8 2009 meeting =================== AI: Jonathan - 2575, 2698 put bugnotes on those Mantis items to record this resolution. AI: Jonathan - for 2744 add a bug note explaining this action. AI: Steven - for 2692: to copy-and-paste critical parts of that text to a new bugnote. AI: Francoise - proposals for 2606, 2607 AI: Mehdi - place 2380, 1517, 2715, for email vote, shortened, due June 11, ============ from June 1 2009 meeting =================== AI: Steven - 2575 resend his email vote response to Francoise on this point. AI: Francoise - update the proposal for 2575 with Steven Sharp's feedback. AI: Mehdi - mantis 1575 add to email vote. AI: Arturo - mantis 2738 create the pdf file. AI: David - mantis 2711 put together a proposal (do more word-smithing on the reflector) AI: Mehdi - mantis 2694 add to email vote. AI: Mehdi - mantis 2692 add to email vote. AI: Mehdi - mantis 1486 put up for email vote. AI: Dave; proposal for 1517 and 1721 AI: Jonathan - mantis 2715; prepared to write a proposal saying that strings are singular. ============ from May 11 2009 meeting =================== AI: Tom - mantis 2738 id 115 reload as a pdf (Neil can't see it). AI: All - last chance to point out anything that people want to work on. ============ from May 4 2009 meeting =================== AI: Francoise - put a proposal for id 19. AI: Mehdi - put mantis 2700 up for an email vote. AI: Steven - mantis 2713 update with a reference to "text above" AI: Mehdi - update 2719: friendly amendment for id 60 and remove id 122 AI: Mehdi - for 2711, check the rules for voting, yes/no/abstain items. AI: Tom - write a proposal for id 115 AI: Mehdi - for id 182 mantis 2514 put the proposal into an email vote AI: Dave - id 183 mantis 2510 will update the proposal to have a xref to 6.21. AI: Mehdi - id 183 mantis 2510 put up for an email vote AI: Arturo - send email on mantis 2597, id 49. AI: All - send email for any that remain open that should be done for this PAR. ============ from April 27 2009 meeting =================== AI: Stu - id 42; write a proposal (the third 'is'). Dave mentioned a second spot also. AI: Jonathan - id 138 put together a proposal (in the coverage section) AI: Mehdi - id 140 put into email vote - consider for next PAR. AI: Gord - id 52 and 64 create a proposal for an update to 8.22. Won't have time to review the whole LRM for other places to change. AI: Francoise - id 52 and 64 will make a more complete proposal. AI: Gord - id 51 will put together a proposal. AI: All - ids 67,53,55,109,111,49 send email on it. AI: Steven - id 21, will gather some input on this. mantis 2715 AI: Steven, Arturo, Gord - review the set of points in mantis 2715 (id 21) AI: Dave - send email to Mehdi on the mantis items that address his AI/s ============ from April 20 2009 continuation meeting =================== AI: Steven - row 146 id 47 create a proposal for updating the table. AI: Mehdi - row 148 id 48 add to an email vote, one of the canned responses should work. AI: Francoise - row 149 id 49 will add and email link to the mantis item. AI: Steven - row 150 id 50 will track down what text he thinks needs to be changed so that we can think of these as class members. AI: Francoise - will have a proposal by next meeting. AI: Arturo - row 151 id 51: take a look at this one (and line 152 id 52) AI: Francoise - add to mantis 2575 (line 150, id 50) AI: Mark - row 153 id 67write up a proposal AI: Francoise - row 154 id 53 write a proposal to move that one sentence earlier in this section. AI: Jonathan - row 158 id 182 will take a look at it. AI: Mehdi - row 167 id 183 add to the email vote.