Subject: Re: Workgroup status (III)
From: Kevin Cameron x3251 (Kevin.Cameron@nsc.com)
Date: Thu Apr 05 2001 - 13:39:50 PDT
This bounced off the reflctor -
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From: Steve Grout <sgrout@tality.com>
Organization: Tality LP
To: Ian Wilson <imw@antrim.com>
Ian and others - WRT to postponing a) backannotation of
timing and parasitics, I appreciate that in general, much of
that implied work might indeed be beyond the 2.1 current scope.
There is a reality to this subject about today's possible
solutions and what is needed long range.
I would like therefore to counter-propose the following
several steps:
- Get that group of people defined (who is interested, and
more importantly who may presently be having problems.)
- Regard this to be low but non-zero priority.
- Have a 1-2 month period of email-based activity to
both
1) Define what is needed and possible right now, including
if nothing is possible right now.
+ For instance, since xxPF and SDF
exist right now and there are flows, we should at least
do a perfunctionary discussion of Verilog-AMS in a flow
with those formats, extraction tool, timing analysis tool,
and verilog/verilog-AMS simulator.
+ Produce an informal draft of at least one flow using
existing, widely-used tools/methodology. As time permits,
refine a succinct version of that draft as a candidate
chapter (or appendix entry).
+ If its decided that nothing particular meaningful
can be done near term, then produce a brief 'Informative'
chapter for the appendix, thus having the 2.1 document
at least say clearly what is not yet standardized, nor
has a likely industry practice for doing backannotation.
2) Do brief (maybe brain-storm like) pass at
+ What's needed long range (probably obvious stuff...)
+ What's doable long range assuming it would be fairly
easy to do any set of needed changes, including surrounding
tools, (database), and infrastructure.
+ Produce an informal draft of the above concepts and
rough requirements/rationale, and post that on
the webpage.
3) then as questions come up that inter-relate with timing,
parasitics, and backannotation, we then have an objective
way of say, "that topic is 1) in scope and being worked
on albeit at a low priority, 2) scoped for later,
3) we think that's completely out of scope and we'll
discuss at such and such point in the schedule,
or 4) that's completely not in scope for Verilog-AMS.
With this and a couple others, its possible that what we are talking
about here is both a contribution to the main 2.1 document, as well
as an adjunct Practices, or Use Guide document, that would be issued
concurrently as a non-Normative document.
So bottom line, I suggest defining what's near term doable, and
a long term range of concepts.
Such work I believe can be done without detracting from getting the
rest of 2.1 done. More importantly, we then would have an objective
basis for deciding what timing, parasitics, and backannotation issues
are or are not in scope for the present 2.1 work.
Regards,
--Steve Grout
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> There have been a couple of responses suggesting work on:
> a) backannotation of timing and parasitics
> b) scheduling semantics of analog events, e.g. timer
>
> I have suggested that we postpone (a) until after the 2.1 edit,
> since it is presently not in the DOs. This is not to suggest that
> it isn't important, but adding a DO is pretty weighty for now.
> Kevin is the champion for this functionality - anyone interested
> please look at his proposals and/or contact him.
>
> I've added a group for (b) and put Sri, Graham and Peter in it
> as a first cut.
>
> There have also been a number of questions about the status of
> discipline resolution. Unfortunately I don't have time to go into
> this in detail rght now. Jon Sanders and I met a couple of weeks
> ago; at least we now have a clear picture of the gulf that exists.
> I will write this up in more detail when I get back on line.
>
> Proposed groups:
>
> (from previous email):
> >> Proposal for work groups and members:
>
> >> 1. Mixed signal initialization and simulation cycle (including
> >> alignment with VHDL-AMS semantics): Peter, Dan, Martin
>
> >> 2. Semantics and synchronization of cross-domain access: Ian,
> >> Martin, Graham
>
> 3. Scheduling semantics for analog events and operators: Sri,
> Graham, Peter
>
> >> Deliverables: statement of the issues and what the group expects
> >> to provide for resolution. If possible I'd like to have this
> >> available for a phone meeting some time next week (4/2 - 4/6).
>
> I am in major time trouble this week and will be away during the 2
> weeks starting 4/8. I would like to get the workgroups up and
> running NOW if possible. We can arrange a conference call some time
> in the next 2 days, or do it by email if preferred. Just let me know.
>
> --ian
-- Steve Grout - Tality Analog/Mixed-Signal Design Services 200 Regency Forest Drive - Suite 260, Cary, NC 27511 PAGER: 888-811-5819 or 8115819@pagemci.com EMAIL sgrout@tality.com, Phone 919-481-6844, FAX 919-380-3902----- End Included Message -----
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