RE: Minutes of the Verilog-AMS meeting: 10th July 2008

But the references in question are in the dashed item referring to
1364-2005, not internally to the V-AMS LRM. So the extra references to
1364-2005 are still wrong. Am I being dense?

Shalom 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Geoffrey.Coram [mailto:geoffrey.coram@analog.com] 
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:19 PM
> To: Bresticker, Shalom
> Cc: Sri Chandra; Verilog-AMS LRM Committee; Wilmore, Jim
> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Verilog-AMS meeting: 10th July 2008
> 
> It was probably my fault that this was listed as 
> low-priority; it seemed like a lot of work to track down the 
> original intent, and it didn't occur to me that copying the 
> existing text to Mantis would be a better way to mark the 
> issue for later attention than leaving it in the LRM.
> 
> I had a vague sense that maybe there were $functions 
> mentioned in scattered chapters, specific to the main topic 
> of the chapter -- things like $param_given that is mentioned 
> in 6.3.5 -- and wondered if there were any $functions that 
> were not also described in Clause 9.  If an $identifier is 
> defined outside the list of places in 2.8.3, is someone going 
> to be upset?
> 
> -Geoffrey
> 
> 
> 
> Bresticker, Shalom wrote:
> > Hi, Sri.
> > 
> > The correct references are already there.
> > The additional references are erroneous.
> > 
> > Regardless, there is no point in leaving references that 
> are clearly 
> > wrong.
> > If you are not going to change them, then delete them now, 
> and you can 
> > always add others later.
> > 
> > If you had written 2+2=5 and discovered the error, you would either 
> > correct it to 4 or delete it. You would not leave a 
> sentence that you 
> > know to be wrong. It is different than a sentence which is 
> partially 
> > correct and partially incorrect, where you might say that there is 
> > some benefit in leaving it.
> > 
> > Can you point to a single benefit from leaving the 
> incorrect references?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Shalom
> > 
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Sri Chandra [mailto:sri.chandra@freescale.com]
> >> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 6:09 AM
> >> To: Bresticker, Shalom
> >> Cc: Verilog-AMS LRM Committee; Wilmore, Jim
> >> Subject: Re: Minutes of the Verilog-AMS meeting: 10th July 2008
> >>
> >> Shalom,
> >>
> >> Thanks for your response and clarifying the text on that.
> >>
> >> We had a bit of discussion on this item and we were not clear what 
> >> the references are intended for, and what the correct references 
> >> should be for both the system tasks and functions.
> >> It was acknowledged during the meeting that the references 
> may be in 
> >> error (due to chapter
> >> addition/deletions) or sections having been moved. However, it was 
> >> felt in the discussions that it was probably a minor issue which 
> >> might take more time to actually figure out the correct ones and 
> >> leave them there.
> >> May be not the best approach but since during the 
> discussions it was 
> >> felt as a minor item.
> >>
> >> I understand your concern, and greatly appreciate the 
> feedback that 
> >> we would like to incorporate in the LRM, and apologize 
> that you find 
> >> this particular decision ridiculous.
> >> I will take another look at this particular issue that you have 
> >> mentioned.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Sri
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Bresticker, Shalom wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Regarding the cross-references to IEEE Std 1364-2005 claues
> >> for system
> >>> tasks and functions and compiler directives, the internal
> >> references
> >>> appear immediately following the texts in question:
> >>>
> >>> The $identifier system task or function can be defined in
> >> five places
> >>> - A standard set of $identifier system tasks and functions,
> >> as defined
> >>> in Clause 8, Clause 10, Clause 17 and Clause 18 of IEEE std
> >> 1364-2005
> >>> Verilog HDL.
> >>> - Additional $identifier system tasks and functions defined
> >> using the
> >>> PLI, as described in Clause 12 and Clause 20 of IEEE std 
> 1364-2005 
> >>> Verilog HDL.
> >>> - Additional $identifier system tasks and functions defined
> >> in Clause
> >>> 4 and Clause 9 of this standard.
> >>> - Additional $identifier system tasks and functions defined
> >> using the
> >>> VPI as described in Clause 11 and Clause 12 of this standard.
> >>> - Additional $identifier system tasks and functions defined by 
> >>> software implementations.
> >>>
> >>> and
> >>>
> >>> The `identifier compiler directive construct can be defined
> >> in three
> >>> places
> >>> - A standard set of `identifier compiler directives defined
> >> in Clause
> >>> 11 and Clause 19 of IEEE std 1364-2005 Verilog HDL.
> >>> - Additional `identifier compiler directives defined in
> >> Clause 10 of
> >>> this standard.
> >>> - Additional `identifier compiler directives defined by software 
> >>> implementations.
> >>>
> >>> Thus the references to Clauses 8, 10, 11, and 12 are
> >> clearly wrong and
> >>> it is ridiculous to leave them. The correct references do
> >> appear and
> >>> therefore these should be simply deleted. Even if you can
> >> claim that
> >>> maybe they were intended to refer to something else and 
> you want to 
> >>> find out what that was, it makes no sense to leave them in their 
> >>> current form. Delete them now, and if you find in the future an 
> >>> additional reference that should have appeared, add it
> >> then. As they
> >>> are now, they do not help anyone, and just confuse.
> >>>  
> >>>
> >>>> * [Clause 2.8.3, pg 32]: The references to Clause 8, 10, 
> and 12 of
> >>>> 1364-2005 may be incorrect. This was discussed in the
> >> committee and
> >>>> its unclear at this point whether some of the clauses 
> are internal 
> >>>> references to Verilog-AMS document itself. Also chapter
> >> numbers have
> >>>> changed in p1364 and LRM2.3 and need to do detailed 
> search for any 
> >>>> reference to system task/function on these before removing these 
> >>>> clauses.
> >>>> ==> *Note:* This is not planned for this version and 
> will be taken 
> >>>> for next revision and also deemed as not very critical.
> >>>>
> >>>> * [Clause 2.8.4, pg 32]: The reference to Clause 11 of
> >> 1364 might be
> >>>> incorrect. This was discussed in the committee and its 
> unclear at 
> >>>> this point whether some of the clauses are internal 
> references to 
> >>>> Verilog-AMS document itself. Also chapter numbers have changed in
> >>>> p1364 and LRM2.3 and need to do detailed search for any
> >> reference to
> >>>> system task/function on these before removing these clauses.
> >>>> ==> *Note:* This is not planned for this version and 
> will be taken 
> >>>> for next revision and also deemed as not very critical.
> >>> Regards,
> >>> Shalom
> >>>
> 
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