-- IEEE 1850 PSL Working Group Meeting ============================== Location: Teleconference Date: 7 Dec 2004 Presiding Officer: Yaron Wolfsthal, Vice-Chair Secretary: Erich Marschner Website: http://www.eda.org/ieee-1850 Members: ======== Accellera DR: Harry Foster Cadence DR: Erich Marschner; DRA: Steve Ward IBM DR: Yaron Wolfsthal; DRAs: Avigail Orni, Cindy Eisner, Sitvanit Ruah, Dana Fisman Mentor Graphics DR: Steve Bailey; DRA: Tej Singh Infineon DR: Klaus Winkelmann Lapsed: ======= Synopsys DR: Surrendra Dudani; DRA: Oz Levia Attendance Record: ================== Key: v : member (= voting priveleges) during this meeting + : present (leftmost = most recent meeting) _ : absent Members: v (_+++++_++) Accellera (DR: Harry Foster) v (+++++++++) Cadence (DR: Erich Marschner) v (+++++++++) IBM (DR: Yaron Wolfsthal) v (+++++++++) Mentor Graphics (DR: Steve Bailey) (+_+_+++++) Synopsys (DR: Surrendra Dudani) v (__+++_+__) Infineon (DR: Klaus Winkelmann) Observers: (+++++++++) Avigail Orni (IBM) (+++++++++) Johan Mårtenson (Safelogic) (+++++_+++) Johan Alfredson (Safelogic) (++++++++_) Tej Singh (Mentor) (+++_+__++) Sitvanit Ruah (IBM) (+++__++++) Dana Fisman (IBM/Weizmann Institute) (++_++++__) Jari Kalinainen (Nokia) (+_++_+++_) Andrew Seawright (Mentor) (_++_+++++) Joseph Lu (NVidia) (_++_+++++) Mohamed-Lyes Benalycherif (ST) (_++_+____) Andrea Fedeli (_++__++++) Bassam Tabbara (Novas) (_+_++++++) Tom Thatcher (Sun) (_+_++_+__) Adriana Maggiore (AltraVerifica) (__+__+___) Makarand Joshi (Cadence) Inactive: (___+_+___) Cindy Eisner (IBM) (____+_+__) Steve Ward (Cadence) (______+__) Limor Fix (Intel) (_______++) Jin Hou (Synopsys) (_______++) Peter Flake (Synopsys) (_______++) Ben Cohen (consultant) (_______+_) Richard Wallace (Northrop Grumman) (________+) J. Bhasker (eSilicon) Agenda: ======= Agenda: Call to order - Attendance Roll Call - Patent Policy and Letters of Assurance - Approve Agenda - Approve Minutes of Last Meeting Old Business - Membership Issue Update - Schedule Review - IEEE Support Services Update - Balloting Subcommittee Subcommittee Reports - Issues Subcommittee - Extensions Subcommittee - LRM Subcommittee New Business - Coordination with other IEEE standards Next Meeting Adjourn - Attendance Roll Call Call to order: ============== The meeting was called to order at 8:04am PST. Attendance was recorded via roll call. The IEEE patent policy slides were presented. The working group was advised that the IEEE's Patent Policy is consistent with the ANSI patent policy; that early disclosure of patents which may be essential for the use of standards under development is encouraged; that such disclosures may not be exhaustive; and that the IEEE, the working group, and the working group chair cannot ensure the accuracy or completeness of any disclosure. An opportunity was provided for the working group members to disclose patents that might be essential for use of PSL. No patents were disclosed. An additional agenda item was added: coordination with other standards (VHDL, SystemVerilog, SystemC). The agenda was approved, with the additional item. (Motion: Erich; second: Steve: no objections) The minutes of the last meeting were approved. (Motion: Steve; second: Tej; no objections) Old Business: ============= 1. Membership Issue Update As of last meeting, Synopsys membership lapsed due to failure to attend 2 of the last 3 meetings. According to the P&Ps, Synopsys membership will be restored after attendance at two successive meetings. Meeting observers were asked if their respective companies intend to become corporate IEEE-SA members, and therefore IEEE 1850 PSL WG members. Jari mentioned that Nokia is planning to do so, but it is not clear when. Johan M. noted that SafeLogic is also planning to do so. Pending action items: AI: Erich to propose revised text to clarify P&Ps [to reflect intent of membership = voting priveleges]. AI: Johan M. to work with Erich to propose such an amendment [to accelerate membership of new IEEE-SA members]. No progress on these action items since last week. (Working on higher priority tasks instead.) 2. Schedule Review The schedule spreadsheet is posted on the web, at: http://www.eda.org/ieee-1850/docs/P1850-Schedule.xls Draft LRM changes are due by December 15, and final changes by December 30. We skipped over the schedule review, since Harry was not present. Harry still plans to review the schedule with Andrew Ickowicz from IEEE, and update it as necessary. 3. IEEE Support Services Erich summarized the state of discussions with Edward Rashba regarding funded services. Three major areas are involved: - pre-ballot review of the draft standard - eballot support - project management It appears to be appropriate to purchase funded services in these areas. The total cost will approach 40K, about half of which we expect Accellera to cover. The rest would need to come from IEEE 1850 WG members. The working group members need to decide whether they would be willing and able to provide the additional funding required. Several members commented on the likelihood of their company being willing to provide additional funding for these services. IBM, Mentor, and Cadence representatives said that their respective companies would support this. Surrendra said that he would look into whether Synopsys would support it. Jari mentioned that Nokia has funded projects for PSL next year, which might be able to support this. Some discussion occurred about how the cost would be divided among members. Johan suggested that the cost be distributed proportionally, like IEEE-SA corporate membership fees. Steve suggested following the SystemVerilog approach, proportional to revenue. Erich noted that assessing WG members to cover the cost of services in turn implies a deadline for becoming a member of the working group, so that we can determine how to divide up the cost. It was suggested that membership and funding commitments should be made by January 1 in order to put a contract in place in January. Others argued that the schedule be more aggressive - that commitments be in place by December 20. In any case, the funding would need to be provided no earlier than January 1, 2005, so for many (perhaps all) this would come from next fiscal year's budget. Steve, Yaron, Erich all agreed to try to make a commitment by December 20. Johan M. agreed to look into what SafeLogic can commit to, but will need a decision on the funding distribution first. It was agreed that we should follow IEEE 1800 SystemVerilog WG's decisions regarding funding distribution. Action items: - Steve to find out from Dennis and forward to Erich/Yaron (and the reflector) - Erich/Yaron to meet with Harry to create a proposal It was also agreed that we should vote on support for funded services by email, once the proposal has been circulated. The ballot would be based on the number of members after this meeting. The issue of creating a balloting subcommittee was tabled, since it would be replaced by IEEE funded services. Subcommittee Reports: ===================== 1. Issues Subcommittee (Erich) The Issues List (at http://www.eda.org/ieee-1850/Issues/Issues.html) has been updated. Two new issues: 51: problem with example for nested clocks, or an unnecessary restriction 52: problem with fuzzy Appendix B making some symbols indistinguishable New issue groups: Group L: LRM issues Group M: clocking and sampling issues Group N: numeric vs. integer expression issue Group O: SystemC flavor issue The Issues pages have been updated to point to discussions for Groups K (cover) and M (clocking and sampling) that have occurred on the reflector. 2. Extensions Subcommittee (Erich) The last Extensions SC meeting focused on discussion of Group I (forall) issues. The result was a decision to consider three possible changes: - Relax the restriction that prohibits use of forall for nested properties - Add parameterized and/or operators (parameterized and on properties subsumes forall) - Apply forall to directives Two of the three proposals were completed prior to this meeting. 3. LRM Subcommittee (Harry) LRM committee met Thursday 2 Dec. As a result, most of the issues originally identified as LRM issues have now been moved to Group L. All issues in this group involve straightforward LRM changes. Harry will make those changes in the draft LRM and then append a list of the detailed changes to the Group L page. Several LRM issues were reclassified. Issue #6 (numeric vs. integer expression) seems to need further analysis; it is now listed as the sole issue in Group N. Issue #13 (simple subset restriction) was already factored out in Group E. Issue #36 was already discussed as part of Group I (forall). New Business: ============= 1. Coordination with other IEEE groups Erich noted that the charter of this working group (specified in the PAR) involves coordination with other working groups regarding VHDL, Verilog, SystemVerilog, and SystemC. We need to put in place a liaison with each of the following working groups: IEEE 1076 (VHDL), IEEE 1666 (SystemC), IEEE 1800 (SystemVerilog and Verilog). Surrendra agreed to be the liaison with IEEE 1800. He noted that there have been few substantative changes in SVA as part of IEEE 1800 and gave some examples: - allowing optional data types for formal arguments - change related to recursive properties Steve Bailey agreed to be the liaison with IEEE 1076. He summarized the current plan to incorporate PSL v1.1 by reference into the VHDL 1076-200x LRM, and the extension of the VHDL simulation cycle definition to define when PSL elements are evaluated. We discussed the need to update that reference to IEEE 1850 PSL, and to coordinate on the definition of what part of PSL is being incorporated by reference. The need for a liaison with IEEE 1666 was noted, in particular with regard to issue #44 (SystemC flavor of PSL). Steve commented that we should ensure that such a SystemC flavor should not require an implementer to build a C++ compiler. Yaron suggested that we have review IEEE working group coordination in each meeting. Next Meeting: ============= The next meeting of the working group will be held on Tuesday December 14 from 8am-10am PDT. Harry will be unavailable for the next meeting, so Yaron will again act as Chair. Agenda and teleconference information will be sent out shortly. Adjournment =========== Attendance was checked again, by roll call. We discussed the issue of the second roll call, the time of which is difficult to predict, since the length of working group meetings has been varying. We decided to estimate when each WG meeting will end and note that in the agenda sent out before each meeting. Motion to adjourn - (motion: Erich; second: Tej; no objections) The meeting was adjourned at approximately 9:20am PST. (A meeting of the Extensions SC followed the WG meeting, from 9:20am until 10:03am PST.) ============================================================================Received on Tue Dec 14 09:44:22 2004
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