[Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Support of framemaker]]

Hi All,

I monitor verilog-ams and noticed the discussion you had about tools.  I 
asked Peter, who is highly regarded author with whom I've worked on IEEE 
standards for some time if he cared to comment.  He wrote this and sent 
it to you, but it has not been accepted by the list manager.  I thought 
you might find it useful.

Regards, John Shields

attached mail follows:

John,
 
I didn't get a bounce. But since I'm not a member of the email list, my
message probably went to the list owner for approval. It's probably
languishing there. In case you want to forward it on my behalf, it's
attached.
 
Cheers,
 
PA

--
Dr. Peter J. Ashenden         peter@ashenden.com.au
Ashenden Designs Pty. Ltd.    www.ashenden.com.au
PO Box 640                    VoIP: sip://0871270078@sip.internode.on.net
Stirling, SA 5152             Phone (mobile):  +61 414 70 9106
Australia
  

-----Original Message-----
From: John Shields [mailto:John_Shields@mentor.com] 
Sent: Saturday, 26 August 2006 5:04 AM
To: Peter Ashenden
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Support of framemaker]


Peter, you know I looked for that reply and did not see one from you.  Did
it bounce?

Peter Ashenden wrote: 

John,



Thanks for forwarding. I've replied to the list.



Cheers,



PA



--

Dr. Peter J. Ashenden         peter@ashenden.com.au

Ashenden Designs Pty. Ltd.    www.ashenden.com.au

PO Box 640                    VoIP: sip://0871270078@sip.internode.on.net

Stirling, SA 5152             Phone (mobile):  +61 414 70 9106

Australia

 



  

-----Original Message-----

From: John Shields [mailto:John_Shields@mentor.com] 

Sent: Wednesday, 23 August 2006 3:25 AM

To: Peter Ashenden

Subject: [Fwd: Support of framemaker]





FYI.  There is some perspective missing on this...any thought about 

Frame and its flexibility/justification?



    





  

attached mail follows:

Folks,

A colleague drew my attention to the thread on use of FrameMaker for
preparing standards documents. I might be able to offer some comments. I've
been using FrameMaker for the VHDL standard, on another standards project,
and on several other significant publishing projects.

IEEE lets you prepare standards drafts using FrameMaker or MS Word. In
either case, you need to use the templates they provide, since that helps
ensure you adhere to the IEEE style requirements. Bear in mind that you're
not writing a document in isolation. Rather, you're contributing to an
extensive suite of several hundred standard published by IEEE and harmonized
with national and international standards organizations. Consistency of
style is important.

With regard to the choice between FrameMaker and Word: I've tried both, and
found that Word doesn't cut it for large documents. It might work ok for
smaller documents of 50 to 100 pages. But the Verilog standards are pushing
towards 1000 pages, with complex document structure. You need a tool
appropriate to the job.

Geoffrey's comment about paragraph styles and keeping them consistent across
a book suggests that he may not be using the right process. I don't have
that problem. I define styles in a template document, then import them into
each document in the book. If I need to modify a style, I modify it in the
template, then re-import. A small amount of discipline makes this a
non-issue.

Geoffrey also referred to LaTeX, presumably because of its hierarchical
document structuring features. I agree that such features are a major
improvement over linear paragraph formatting. But LaTeX for IEEE standards
just isn't going to happen. But FrameMaker DOES provide the same kind of
structuring features, if you use SGML or XML structured documents. While
it's not widely advertised, IEEE uses SGML internally, and can provide an
SGML DTD for IEEE standards. I've found it much easier to work with large
documents when they're structured, compared to when they're linear. It also
helps keep the formatting under control.

Regarding platform support: this has been an issue, and still is. FrameMaker
used to be supported on Windows, MacOS and various Unixes. When Adobe bought
the product, they did a beta release for Linux, but dropped it, much to the
consternation of many users. Then they dropped Mac support, which really
upset a lot of users. Now that MacOS has moved to Unix, it would seem less
of an effort for them to put it back on that platform. Maybe more pressure
from potential users is needed.

In summary: Accellera standards are destined to be IEEE standards, so they
need to end up in IEEE style formatted using the IEEE templates. IEEE only
support Word or FrameMaker, so they're your options. FrameMaker works, Word
struggles. FrameMaker/SGML is probably the best option.

Cheers,

PA

--
Dr. Peter J. Ashenden         peter@ashenden.com.au
Ashenden Designs Pty. Ltd.    www.ashenden.com.au
PO Box 640                    VoIP: sip://0871270078@sip.internode.on.net
Stirling, SA 5152             Phone (mobile):  +61 414 70 9106
Australia