I think 1) is a given with the O'reilly method of docbook light and their custom DTD.. and that gives you 2) and 3) pretty much automagically.. and no need for 4.. How would that be? thats the way I would be thinking.. OpenOffice might not be quite the right way to go.. but with OpenDocumentFormat or DocBookLite, a simple perl script should be able to make any translations needed.. (ok..ok.. it probably too early to say that.. but if we made this the target.. (OK So you Probably STILL want to EDIT.. typos etc..) the formatting should already be right when you get the doc from us.. (as long as we followed the guidelines and conformed to the DTD..) so docbook to SGML or PDF is easily done.. open office can go right to pdf as well.. And thats something I can install on my PC.. Time for me to do that. Jonathan ----- Original Message ---- From: d.messina@ieee.org To: Jonathan David <jb_david@yahoo.com> Cc: Geoffrey.Coram <Geoffrey.Coram@analog.com>; Peter@ashenden.com.au; verilog-ams@eda.org Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:31:23 PM Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Support of framemaker]] Hi Everyone, Maybe I'm still thinking backwards or more in my comfort zone. We need to be able to the following with whatever you give us after board approval: 1) edit and format to meet our style (what is the learning curve? how long will it take us to learn to edit in open office. We need to be able to do list, tables, figures, cross referencing, headers/footers, etc. 2005 Style Manual requirements), separate source file for the graphics. 2) generate a PDF with the correct fonts embedded, 1st and 2nd level headers bookmarked, table of contents and cross-referencing link, other PDF embellishments 3) create sgml from the source file according to ieeestd DTD. 4) provide a round trip document back to the working group. Hope this makes sense, Don Don Messina IEEE Standards Program Manager, Document Development 732 465 6462 Jonathan David <jb_david@yahoo.c om> To d.messina@ieee.org 08/30/2006 02:28 cc PM "Geoffrey.Coram" <Geoffrey.Coram@analog.com>, Peter@ashenden.com.au, Please respond to verilog-ams@eda.org Jonathan David Subject <jb_david@yahoo.c Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Support of om> framemaker]] Thanks for answering Don! Maybe you can explain your flow to us.. After we send you the document in OpenDocument [or DocBook (lite) formatted according to a new IEEE-SA DTD, ] why would you need to import the document into word or frame? If the new tool we adopt is opensource[extendable!!], and free, why wouldn't you use the same tool we use? or some other tool that directly works with the DTD.. (the one that exists today (the DTD Peter found on the IEEE website) seems to be about 8 years old.. probably would need some update anyway? remember its not primarily a frustration with Word or a reluctance to use Frame.. its a complete lack of ANY tool we can use on Linux.. BTW just visited the writely web site.. www.writely.com maybe IEEE could license that engine with our own SA DTD.. for Spec development? jbd ----- Original Message ---- From: d.messina@ieee.org To: Jonathan David <jb_david@yahoo.com> Cc: Geoffrey.Coram <Geoffrey.Coram@analog.com>; Peter@ashenden.com.au; verilog-ams@eda.org Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:13:15 AM Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Support of framemaker]] Hi Jon, Geoffrey, and Peter, Can you send a sample Open Office document. We would like to try opening it to get an idea of how much time we would need to reformat or import the document into Word or Frame. I understand your frustration with Word and your reluctance to go to Frame. We have developed a Word Template (we have been publishing documents that are 250 pages (the largest so far) - version 2 will be out in January and that is much improved. let's take a look at what you can provide us before we make any decision. Thank you, Don Don Messina IEEE Standards Program Manager, Document Development 732 465 6462 Jonathan David <jb_david@yahoo.c om> To "Geoffrey.Coram" 08/30/2006 12:48 <Geoffrey.Coram@analog.com> PM cc d.messina@ieee.org, verilog-ams@eda.org, Please respond to Peter@ashenden.com.au Jonathan David Subject <jb_david@yahoo.c Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Support of om> framemaker]] Just Saw "writely" .. www.writely.com a new webapp that allows for collaborative document editing, and even revision control.. allows saves in Open Office format (and Word) among others.. Seems like an ideal editing environment for a specification effort! maybe with a little "google hacking" the IEEE-SA could provide this environment with their enforced document styles to all SA members.. and or accellera could do the same for its specs.. I'll probably use this the next time I have to get a bunch of IEEE members to agree on an announcment.. jbd ----- Original Message ---- From: Geoffrey.Coram <Geoffrey.Coram@analog.com> To: John Shields <jshields@ieee.org> Cc: verilog-ams@eda.org; Peter Ashenden <peter@ashenden.com.au> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:44:18 AM Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Support of framemaker]] Peter - I apologize for missing your non-member submission; most of the bounces are spam and I must have missed your name. Shalom did point out that Frame and Word are all that IEEE allows. In V-AMS, we haven't had a paid LRM editor, so some of our problems (eg with templates) are because volunteers (plural) have been editing the files. It's hard to enforce discipline across multiple users, some of whom (including myself) aren't experts in Frame. I noticed some problems when I was editing LRM 2.2, but I wasn't keen on spending hours of my personal time sorting them out. -Geoffrey Peter Ashenden wrote: > Folks, > > A colleague drew my attention to the thread on use of FrameMaker for preparing standards documents. I might be able to offer some comments. I've been using FrameMaker for the VHDL standard, on another > standards project, and on several other significant publishing projects. > > IEEE lets you prepare standards drafts using FrameMaker or MS Word. In either case, you need to use the templates they provide, since that helps ensure you adhere to the IEEE style requirements. Bear in mind that > you're not writing a document in isolation. Rather, you're contributing to an extensive suite of several hundred standard published by IEEE and harmonized with national and international standards organizations. > Consistency of style is important. > > With regard to the choice between FrameMaker and Word: I've tried both, and found that Word doesn't cut it for large documents. It might work ok for smaller documents of 50 to 100 pages. But the Verilog standards > are pushing towards 1000 pages, with complex document structure. You need a tool appropriate to the job. > > Geoffrey's comment about paragraph styles and keeping them consistent across a book suggests that he may not be using the right process. I don't have that problem. I define styles in a template document, then import > them into each document in the book. If I need to modify a style, I modify it in the template, then re-import. A small amount of discipline makes this a non-issue. > > Geoffrey also referred to LaTeX, presumably because of its hierarchical document structuring features. I agree that such features are a major improvement over linear paragraph formatting. But LaTeX for IEEE > standards just isn't going to happen. But FrameMaker DOES provide the same kind of structuring features, if you use SGML or XML structured documents. While it's not widely advertised, IEEE uses SGML internally, > and can provide an SGML DTD for IEEE standards. I've found it much easier to work with large documents when they're structured, compared to when they're linear. It also helps keep the formatting under control. > > Regarding platform support: this has been an issue, and still is. FrameMaker used to be supported on Windows, MacOS and various Unixes. When Adobe bought the product, they did a beta release for Linux, but dropped > it, much to the consternation of many users. Then they dropped Mac support, which really upset a lot of users. Now that MacOS has moved to Unix, it would seem less of an effort for them to put it back on that platform. > Maybe more pressure from potential users is needed. > > In summary: Accellera standards are destined to be IEEE standards, so they need to end up in IEEE style formatted using the IEEE templates. IEEE only support Word or FrameMaker, so they're your options. > FrameMaker works, Word struggles. FrameMaker/SGML is probably the best option. > > Cheers, > > PAReceived on Wed Aug 30 13:21:03 2006
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