Minutes: Analog System Verilog Assertions (ASVA): Jan 13th, 2009

From: Anand Himyanshu <HIMYANSHU.ANAND_at_.....>
Date: Tue Jan 13 2009 - 13:14:20 PST
Attendees listed at the end of the summary:
 
Twiki Site: 
The documents released to the committee (for AMS Assertions) can be
found at http://www.eda.org/twiki/bin/view.cgi/VerilogAMS/AmsAssertions
<http://www.eda.org/twiki/bin/view.cgi/VerilogAMS/AmsAssertions> 

Summary: 
 
The requirements gathering group was formed to solidify the requirements
for analog assertions and investigate the key questions (possible
answers too) that need to be answered before the analog assertion
language can be defined and integrated keeping in mind the future
integration of System Verilog with VAMS. The group will meet
independently and get/provide feedback to the larger group. It was
decided to continue meeting with the larger group for next two months.
At the end of two months, the question of frequency of larger group
meetings will be revisited. 
 
Requirements Gathering Group: Others are welcome to join this group.

Kevin Jones (Green Plug), 
Scott Cranston (Cadence),
Prabal Bhattacharya (Cadence), 
Scott Little (Freescale),
Himyanshu Anand (Freescale) 
 
Detailed Minutes:
 
HA: Call for formation of the requirements gathering committee which
will look into what types of problems should analog assertions address,
their interaction inside the simulator with digital and analog engines.
These requirements will help focus the committee on the problems that
will need to be solved in order to propose the analog assertion
language.
 
KB: There are two problems. One is to extend the SVA to analog world and
second is block level assertions. Are these for the mixed signal
designs? What has FSL looked at?
 
HA: We have looked at the high level in the mixed signal designs.
 
KJ: Block level and mixed signal. They are not separate. The problem is
essentially the same.
 
KB: Verification strategies are different at the block level than system
level. Block level, hundreds of thousands of runs with small variations.
 
KJ: Individual blocks have simple assertions and at system level these
become complex assertions.
 
KB: Block level guys are not unhappy with what they have. Do they have
any pains?
 
KJ: Definitely yes there is pain. Individual analog designers are happy.
Integration guys are unhappy.
 
SL: During integration bugs are caught, which should have been caught by
the analog designers. If the assertions are used, that gives more
visibility into the analog.
 
HA: In FSL too, the integration guys integrating digital and analog
blocks are not happy.
 
KB: Verification problem divided into two. Hundreds of runs are done at
block level. Higher level system verification.
 
PB: Were the problems that were provided by FSL from system level or
block level?
 
SL: Both, a mix from both domains.
 
PB: When you talk about block level, what kind of language do you have
today?
 
SL: There is no language. Analog designers look at waveforms.
 
KB: Waveform calculators and extractions.
 
PB: .measure.
 
PB: Will the System Verilog extension be the one to be extended?
 
HA: That was the original plan. The requirements gathering committee
should look at that aspect and once the requirements are solidified a
decision can be made on the extension.
 
DM: Don't you have customers coming to you who say this is what we want
to do?
 
PB: These requirements will mostly come from the users.
 
KB: Yes they do.
 
PB: What you mean a block could be a combination of lots of smaller
blocks. They are asking for more complex checks and exploration. 
    
PB: One thing is worried about is whether we are creating a language or
we are creating a solution.
 
KB: Vendors could go on and provide own proprietary solutions. However,
standards are beneficial to customers, increases competition and also
increases the market for the vendors. We are engaged in standardization.

 
HA: We want a solution which is a standard based on the extended
language that this committee will work on. A solution that will be
pragmatic and useful to all. For this we need to form a committee which
will gather the requirements both from the users and the vendors.
 
JOHN: Has anyone volunteered for the requirements group.
 
KJ: I can be part of the group as a user.
 
SC: What is the expectation from the requirements group? Is it defining
the proposal or coming up with questions that need to be addressed. 
 
HA: The group will gather and solidify the questions that need to be
answered in order to define the unified analog assertion language. It
will deal with questions like how digital/analog interact with respect
to assertions, what types of assertions should be addressed, etc. The
questions are not all clear, and that will be part of the requirements
gathering committee to handle.
 
SC: I will be part of the group from Cadence. (Digital side)
 
SL: I will participate in the group as a user.
 
PB: I will also join the group. (Analog side from Cadence) Need more
interaction from other vendors in order to ensure that everyone is
represented and the standard does not end up as an extension of the
existing solution of one vendor.
 
KB: Other vendors to get involved and provide opportunities. Who else
from VAMS is engaged from the committee in this. Is Sri involved with
this activity?
 
HA: Sri knows about this and the effort to form the requirements
gathering committee. Dave Miller is also on the VAMS committee. Who else
wants to be in the committee?
 
Ed: Will be able to respond about the participation after looking at my
commitments.
 
DM: VAMS does not have the expertise to do the requirement gathering for
assertions. We are happy for the requirements gathering committee to do
this for us. I talk to Sri often about this.
 
KB: Will review the requirements group recommendation but cannot commit
to participate currently.
 
DM: Are these minutes sent to the verilog-ams reflector?
 
HA: Yes, they are.
 
Attendees:
 
Mike Demler	 Individual Contributor	
Ed Cerny	 Synopsys	
Surrendra Dudani	 Synopsys	
Dave Cronauer	 Synopsys	
Prabal Bhattacharya	 Cadence	
Scott Cranston	 Cadence	
Kenneth Bakalar	 Mentor Graphics	
Kevin Jones	 Green Plug	
Dejan Nickovic	 EPF Lausanne	
Dave Miller	 Freescale	
John Havlicek	 Freescale	
Scott Little	 Freescale	
Himyanshu Anand	 Freescale	
 
Total: 13

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Received on Tue Jan 13 13:15:45 2009

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