RE: [sv-cc] RE: [P1800] clause renumbering in 1364

Shalom,

Yes, the references to Clause 20 of P1364-2005 would change to Clause 21.
References to Clause 20 of 1364-2001 would remain unchanged.

I agree that "eliminated" could use some wordsmithing. I think this can be
done as an editorial change, at the discretion of the editor (like
correcting "will" to "shall").

My suggestion, as a member of the CC committee, for you first passage, is to
change

FROM:
"The other Clauses and Annexes have been eliminated entirely."

TO:
"The text of deprecated clauses and annexes has been removed from this
version of the standard, but the clause headings have been retained. Refer
to the matching clause in IEEE Std. 1364-2001 for the deprecated text."

This does not change the meaning of the approved change. It simply more
accurately states the changes that were made. When I made editorial
wordsmithing changes in P1800, I would strike out the old text and put the
new wording in color, so that anyone who objected would have a chance to do
so. We won't have that luxury this time, as the next draft is to be the
clean ballot draft. So, please send out an e-mail of any wordsmithing you
do on this, to give other members of the CC committee a chance to voice
their opinion, if they wish to.

This is just my opinion that this is an editorial change. The opinion of
others on the committee may be different.

Stu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stuart Sutherland
stuart@sutherland-hdl.com
+1-503-692-0898
  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-sv-cc@eda.org [mailto:owner-sv-cc@eda.org] On
> Behalf Of Shalom.Bresticker@freescale.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:18 AM
> To: Stuart Sutherland
> Cc: ieee1800@eda.org; sv-cc@eda.org
> Subject: RE: [sv-cc] RE: [P1800] clause renumbering in 1364
>
> Stu,
>
> 1. So you would change
> "Clause 20 has been modified to reflect this change."
> to
> "Clause 21 has been modified to reflect this change." ?
>
>
> 2. Without connection to the renumbering, I don't like the sentence
> "The other Clauses and Annexes have been eliminated entirely."
> We haven't really eliminated them, just deprecated them,
> and replaced them with pointers to 1364-2001. Suggestions?
>
>
> 3. Again, the notes:
>
> > > Note: The TF routines have been deprecated. Clause 21, Clause
> > > 24, Clause 25 and Annex F of the IEEE Std 1364-2001 Verilog
> > > reference manual have been removed as a result.
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > Note: The ACC routines have been deprecated. Clause 21,
> > > Clause 22, Clause 23 and Annex E of the IEEE Std 1364-2001
> > > Verilog reference manual have been removed as a result.
>
> are not quite accurate. Suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> Shalom
>
>
> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, Stuart Sutherland wrote:
>
> > Shalom,
> >
> > IMHO, there is not a problem with the passages that you have cited.
> > References to clause numbers in 1364-2001 are valid
> references, and won't
> > change. References to clauses in the new P1364 standard
> are, presumably,
> > links, that will update automatically if the clause
> numbering changes.
> > Readers will need to mentally map clause 21 of the new
> standard to clause 20
> > of the old standard, but the mapping is obvious, and the
> cross reference
> > numbers accurate.
> >
> > I like the dictionary.com definition of deprecated that you
> quoted. I had
> > not seen that before.
> >
> > Stu
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > Stuart Sutherland
> > stuart@sutherland-hdl.com
> > +1-503-692-0898
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-sv-cc@eda.org [mailto:owner-sv-cc@eda.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Shalom.Bresticker@freescale.com
> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 8:26 AM
> > > To: Stuart Sutherland
> > > Cc: ieee1800@eda.org; sv-cc@eda.org
> > > Subject: [sv-cc] RE: [P1800] clause renumbering in 1364
> > >
> > > Stuart,
> > >
> > > The problems of confusion are with the following passages
> (from D5):
> > >
> > > 1.4 Contents of this standard
> > >
> > > A synopsis of the clauses and annexes is presented as a quick
> > > reference. There are 28 clauses and 9 annexes. All clauses,
> > > as well as Annex A, Annex B, and Annex G, are normative parts
> > > of this standard. Annex C, Annex D, Annex H, and Annex I are
> > > included for informative purposes only.
> > >
> > > The IEEE Std 1364-2005 specification has deprecated the TF
> > > and ACC routines which were specified previously in Clause 20
> > > through Clause 25, Annex E and Annex F of the IEEE Std
> > > 1364-2001 Verilog reference manual. Clause 20 has been
> > > modified to reflect this change. The other Clauses and
> > > Annexes have been eliminated entirely.
> > >
> > > 20. PLI overview
> > >
> > > 20.1 PLI purpose and history (informative)
> > >
> > > The IEEE Std 1364-2005 specification has deprecated the TF
> > > and ACC routines which were specified previously in Clause 20
> > > through Clause 25, Annex E and Annex F of the IEEE Std
> > > 1364-2001 Verilog reference manual. Clause 20 has been
> > > modified to reflect this change. The other Clauses and
> > > Annexes have been eliminated entirely.
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > Note: The TF routines have been deprecated. Clause 21, Clause
> > > 24, Clause 25 and Annex F of the IEEE Std 1364-2001 Verilog
> > > reference manual have been removed as a result.
> > >
> > > ...
> > >
> > > Note: The ACC routines have been deprecated. Clause 21,
> > > Clause 22, Clause 23 and Annex E of the IEEE Std 1364-2001
> > > Verilog reference manual have been removed as a result.
> > >
> > > I accept your suggestions about being more explicit in the
> > > deleted sections and writing, e.g.,
> > > > This clause has been deprecated. See IEEE Std 1364-2001
> > > Clause 21, PLI
> > > > TF and ACC interface mechanism, for the contents of this clause.
> > >
> > > Just for the record, note that 'deprecation' is not deletion.
> > > dictionary.com, for example, says that, 'deprecated' means
> > >
> > > "Said of a program or feature that is considered obsolescent
> > > and in the process of being phased out, usually in favour of
> > > a specified replacement. Deprecated features can,
> > > unfortunately, linger on for many years. This term appears
> > > with distressing frequency in standards documents when the
> > > committees writing the documents realise that large amounts
> > > of extant (and presumably happily working) code depend on the
> > > feature(s) that have passed out of favour."
> > >
> > > So PLI 1.0 is still part of 1364-2005, just not printed with it.
> > >
> > > Shalom
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, Stuart Sutherland wrote:
> > >
> > > > Shalom,
> > > >
> > > > The PLI 1.0 deprecation left the original clause title for each
> > > > deprecated clause, and replaced the contents of the
> clause with a
> > > > short paragraph stating it was deprecated and that the
> > > original could be found in 1364-2001.
> > > > Specifically, it states (from P1364/D5 Clause 21):
> > > >
> > > > ------------
> > > > Clause 21, PLI TF and ACC interface mechanism (deprecated)
> > > >
> > > > This clause has been deprecated. See IEEE Std 1364-2001 for the
> > > > contents of this clause.
> > > > ------------
> > > >
> > > > The fact that the title of the clause has been retained
> from the
> > > > 1364-2001 LRM is sufficient for readers to find the
> > > information in the 1364-2001 LRM.
> > > > However, a simple editorial change could make the reference
> > > more clear
> > > > if/when the P1364-2005 LRM changes clause numbering.
> All that is
> > > > needed is to add the 1364-2001 clause number to this
> message. I
> > > > suggest adding the title as it appeared in 1364-2001, as well.
> > > >
> > > > For example, in the renumbered P1364-2005 Clause 22,
> we would have:
> > > >
> > > > ------------
> > > > Clause 22, PLI TF and ACC interface mechanism (deprecated)
> > > >
> > > > This clause has been deprecated. See IEEE Std 1364-2001
> > > Clause 21, PLI
> > > > TF and ACC interface mechanism, for the contents of this clause.
> > > > ------------
> > > >
> > > > The 1364-2001 references won't change, no matter what
> > > happens with the
> > > > numbering in this or future versions of P1364. IMHO,
> this is an
> > > > editorial change that does not need any formal approval process.
> > > >
> > > > Stu
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > Stuart Sutherland
> > > > stuart@sutherland-hdl.com
> > > > +1-503-692-0898
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-ieee1800@eda.org
> [mailto:owner-ieee1800@eda.org] On
> > > > > Behalf Of Shalom.Bresticker@freescale.com
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 12:47 AM
> > > > > To: ieee1800@eda.org
> > > > > Cc: sv-cc@eda.org
> > > > > Subject: [P1800] clause renumbering in 1364
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd like to remind that if we have to renumber the clauses in
> > > > > 1364 in order to add Normative References as Clause 2 and
> > > move all
> > > > > the others by one, that is going to mess up the
> > > descriptions of the
> > > > > PLI 1.0 deprecation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Clauses 21-25 in 1364-2001 would be 22-26 in 1364-2005.
> > > > > How do you describe what clauses were deprecated
> without causing
> > > > > confusion?
> > > > >
> > > > > Shalom
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Shalom Bresticker Shalom.Bresticker
> > > > > @freescale.com
> > > > > Design & Verification Methodology Tel:
> > > > > +972 9 9522268
> > > > > Freescale Semiconductor Israel, Ltd. Fax:
> > > > > +972 9 9522890
> > > > > POB 2208, Herzlia 46120, ISRAEL Cell:
> > > > > +972 50 5441478
> > > > >
> > > > > [ ]Freescale Internal Use Only [ ]Freescale Confidential
> > > > > Proprietary
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Shalom Bresticker Shalom.Bresticker
> > > @freescale.com
> > > Design & Verification Methodology Tel:
> > > +972 9 9522268
> > > Freescale Semiconductor Israel, Ltd. Fax:
> > > +972 9 9522890
> > > POB 2208, Herzlia 46120, ISRAEL Cell:
> > > +972 50 5441478
> > >
> > > [ ]Freescale Internal Use Only [ ]Freescale Confidential
> > > Proprietary
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Shalom Bresticker Shalom.Bresticker
> @freescale.com
> Design & Verification Methodology Tel:
> +972 9 9522268
> Freescale Semiconductor Israel, Ltd. Fax:
> +972 9 9522890
> POB 2208, Herzlia 46120, ISRAEL Cell:
> +972 50 5441478
>
> [ ]Freescale Internal Use Only [ ]Freescale Confidential
> Proprietary
>
>
>
Received on Tue Jan 18 13:14:04 2005