Hi, Jim wrote, "BTW, strictly speaking, 37.3.5 does not speak "only about functions with side effects". It also deals with functions that may or may not have side effects." The examples that 37.3.5 gives of functions that "may or may not" have side effects or where the side-effect is conditional or where the implementation may not have "the ability to determine whether an expression has side effects". But the basic priniciple is the same: the problem is side-effects. 37.3.5 does not talk about functions for which it is easily determined that have they do not have side effects, for example. To answer Francoise, both examples in 37.3.5 are of functions that have potential side effects. The proposed detail says, "If the vpiSize of the vpiReturn variable is defined (see 37.17, detail 9) and can be determined without evaluating the function (see 37.3.5), vpiSize for the function shall return the same value as vpiSize for the vpiReturn variable." In other words, the end of the sentence, "vpiSize for the function shall return the same value as vpiSize for the vpiReturn variable," does not apply if the vpiSize cannot be determined without evaluating the function, EVEN IF THE FUNCTION HAS NO POTENTIAL SIDE EFFECTS. For that case, 37.3.5 is not relevant, so why point to it? On the other had, if the reference to 37.3.5 is relevant, then it needs to say something like "and can be determined without evaluating the function as specified in 37.3.5". That would exclude from the condition functions that have no potential side effects. I don't see why this comment is so difficult to understand. Maybe the intent was clear to you, but as a reader, this comes across as inconsistent and confusing. Regards, Shalom ________________________________ From: owner-sv-cc@server.eda.org [mailto:owner-sv-cc@server.eda.org] On Behalf Of Francoise Martinolle Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 5:55 PM To: Jim Vellenga; Charlie Dawson Cc: SV-CC Subject: [sv-cc] RE: [Fwd: [SystemVerilog P1800 0002621]: Ballot comment #155 vpiSize should return an error when applied on a vpiFunction returning string] Jim, I did not really understand Shalom complaint. We were pressed by time at the Champion's meeting so I did not try to get more input. What I think Shalom said is that he wanted to send it back to make sure the CC committee double checks consistency. I said that I did not see any inconsistency in the proposal. I think that Shalom is saying that the cross reference to 37.5.3 is a cross reference to evaluating functions with side effects whereas we are defining the vpiSize property value for a function only if it can be determined without evaluating the function. So why the cross reference? I think your cross reference was to point to the example about the vpiSize property not to the entire section of evaluating function with side effects. So perhaps a see example in section 37.5.3 is perhaps what Shalom was looking for. Francoise ' ________________________________ From: Jim Vellenga [mailto:jvellenga@verizon.net] Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 12:46 PM To: Francoise Martinolle; Charlie Dawson Cc: SV-CC Subject: [Fwd: [SystemVerilog P1800 0002621]: Ballot comment #155 vpiSize should return an error when applied on a vpiFunction returning string] Francoise, I don't really understand the objections of the champions to the wording of the proposal for #2621. Could you explain their objections further? Charles, do we need to have another meeting to deal with this rejected proposal? Regards, Jim Vellenga BTW, strictly speaking, 37.3.5 does not speak "only about functions with side effects". It also deals with functions that may or may not have side effects. I personally believe the proposal is OK as is. j.v. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [SystemVerilog P1800 0002621]: Ballot comment #155 vpiSize should return an error when applied on a vpiFunction returning string Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 20:06:39 -0700 From: Accellera Mantis Bug Tracker <mantis@eda-stds.org><mailto:mantis@eda-stds.org> To: jvellenga@alum.mit.edu<mailto:jvellenga@alum.mit.edu> The following issue has been REOPENED. ====================================================================== http://www.eda-stds.org/svdb/view.php?id=2621 ====================================================================== Reported By: chas Assigned To: Jim Vellenga ====================================================================== Project: SystemVerilog P1800 Issue ID: 2621 Category: SV-CC Reproducibility: always Severity: minor Priority: normal Status: feedback Type: Errata ====================================================================== Date Submitted: 2009-04-06 11:49 PDT Last Modified: 2009-05-16 20:06 PDT ====================================================================== Summary: Ballot comment #155 vpiSize should return an error when applied on a vpiFunction returning string Description: See page 921 (955) in clause 37.37 of the 2009 ballot draft 1. ====================================================================== ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0008071) chas (manager) - 2009-04-27 11:44 http://www.eda-stds.org/svdb/view.php?id=2621#c8071 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The SV-CC PASSED this proposal on Apr-22-2009. (unanimous) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (0008311) Neil Korpusik (administrator) - 2009-05-16 20:06 http://www.eda-stds.org/svdb/view.php?id=2621#c8311 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The following concern was noted by the Champions. In the May 14th conference call the Champions unanimously agreed to send the proposal back to the committee for review to make sure that the following was noted by the committee and that they still believe that the proposal is consistent with the rest of the text in the LRM. The proposal says, "If the vpiSize of the vpiReturn variable is defined (see 37.17, detail 9) and can be determined without evaluating the function (see 37.3.5), vpiSize for the function shall return the same value as vpiSize for the vpiReturn variable... For all other cases the behavior of vpiSize is undefined." 37.3.5 talks specifically about evaluating functions with side effects, not about function evaluation without side effects. Is this consistent? 37.3.5 only talks about functions with side effects. The other text is unconditional. Issue History Date Modified Username Field Change ====================================================================== 2009-04-06 11:49 chas New Issue 2009-04-06 11:49 chas Type => Errata 2009-04-06 19:50 shalom Issue Monitored: shalom 2009-04-07 22:18 John Shields Issue Monitored: John Shields 2009-04-08 17:27 Jim Vellenga Status new => assigned 2009-04-08 17:27 Jim Vellenga Assigned To => Jim Vellenga 2009-04-17 13:39 Jim Vellenga File Added: 2621SizeOfFuncDecl.doc 2009-04-17 13:40 Jim Vellenga File Added: 2621SizeOfFuncDecl.htm 2009-04-21 13:44 Jim Vellenga File Deleted: 2621SizeOfFuncDecl.doc 2009-04-21 13:45 Jim Vellenga File Deleted: 2621SizeOfFuncDecl.htm 2009-04-21 13:46 Jim Vellenga File Added: 2621SizeOfFuncDecl.doc 2009-04-21 13:46 Jim Vellenga File Added: 2621SizeOfFuncDecl.htm 2009-04-22 09:48 Jim Vellenga File Deleted: 2621SizeOfFuncDecl.doc 2009-04-22 09:48 Jim Vellenga File Deleted: 2621SizeOfFuncDecl.htm 2009-04-22 09:53 Jim Vellenga File Added: 2621SizeOfFuncDecl.doc 2009-04-22 09:53 Jim Vellenga File Added: 2621SizeOfFuncDecl.htm 2009-04-27 11:44 chas Note Added: 0008071 2009-04-27 11:44 chas Status assigned => resolved 2009-04-27 11:44 chas Resolution open => fixed 2009-05-16 20:06 Neil Korpusik Note Added: 0008311 2009-05-16 20:06 Neil Korpusik Status resolved => feedback 2009-05-16 20:06 Neil Korpusik Resolution fixed => reopened ====================================================================== -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Vellenga (jvellenga@alum.mit.edu<mailto:jvellenga@alum.mit.edu>) Senior software engineer for high-complexity software development in a production environment; skilled at team-building while retaining a detailed technical knowledge of the project itself. Excellent at negotiating clear definitions (standards, interfaces, etc.) across functional and industry boundaries. 781-646-6778 --- http://www.linkedin.com/in/jimvellenga ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner<http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is believed to be clean. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Intel Israel (74) Limited This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.Received on Wed May 20 05:40:32 2009
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