[sv-cc] Meeting minutes for 01/31/2007

From: Jim Vellenga <vellenga_at_.....>
Date: Thu Feb 01 2007 - 10:00:17 PST
Minutes of 01/31/2007 SV-CC Meeting.

ATTENDEES
000000000000
777666666666
000111110000
111221009988
310200212131
173068517306
-xxxxxxxxxxx Charles Dawson
xxxxx-x-xxxx Ralph Duncan
xxxxxxxxxxxx Jim Vellenga
xx-xxx-x-xxx Andrzej Litwiniuk
xxxx-xxxxxxx Abigail Moorhouse
xx--xxxxxx-x Michael Rohleder
xxxxxxxxxxxx Chuck Berking
xxxxxx-xxxxx Bassam Tabbara
xx-x-xxxxxxx Francoise Martinolle
xxx----xx-xx Amit Kohli
-xxxxxxxxxx- Ghassan Khoory

1.  With both Charles and Ghassan absent, Jim Vellenga called the 
meeting to order.  Ralph moved to appoint Jim as moderator pro tem 
(Chuck seconded).  ACCEPTED (unanimous).

2.  Reviewed Patent information.

   - Jim reviewed the patent information.

3.  Reviewed minutes of the 01/17/2007 Meeting.

    - Chuck/Bassam.  ACCEPTED (unanimous)


3.  Liaisons

   - Francoise was not yet present to report on SV-BC issues.
   - Ralph reported on Mantis item 1447, which proposes clarifying and 
expanding the LRM section on dynamic arrays.  Doug Warmke does not have 
time to drive it, so Ralph will talk with Shalom to see if Shalom can 
drive the issue forward.

4.  New business

   - Full name for class objects (Chuck).

Chuck proposed extending the vpiFullName property so that it applies to 
class variables and their data members.
Jim: 1800 17.14 detail y prohibits the vpiFullName property only for 
nonstatic data members, but seems to allow it on class variables.
Abi: Such objects have an existence in the elaborated design even when 
they don't actually point to an underlying simulation object.
Chuck: Yes, the scope of the thing referred to can change but the way 
to refer to it does not.  VPI must provide a way of connecting the two.
Amit: How can you reference a class variable that is itself declared in 
a class scope?
Chuck: The important thing is to track the expression object, even if 
it involves nested class variables.
Michael: Can the full name of a class variable change from time to time 
if it's embedded in a class?
Chuck: Not if it's embedded in a static context.
Francoise: Originally, vpiFullName was intended to allow an object to 
be retrieved again via vpi_handle_by_name().  But this does not work 
with automatic scopes.  And what about unnamed scopes such as unnamed 
blocks?
Jim: 1800 27.9 says that unnamed scopes shall have tool-dependent 
names.
Chuck: Is there a connection between when an application can obtain a 
vpiFullName and whether or not the handle is valid (vpiValid == TRUE)?
Francoise and Abi:  The two are unrelated.
Steve: We need to separate out the following three issues clearly:
  -- location -- What is the underlying simulation object?
  -- alias -- How are we referring to the object?
  -- time -- How are the location and alias related over time?
Jim: This applies even in old Verilog, as array[i] and array[0] can be 
aliases referring to the same location at times when i has the value 0.
Chuck: If we allow vpi_handle_by_name() to accept a full name of a 
nonstatic member of a class variable, does that object exist even if 
the class variable points to NULL?
Abi and Chuck: Yes, but the application must be aware that it may not 
point to an underlying simulation object and should test vpiValid.
Francoise: A handle does not disappear just because vpiValid becomes 
false.
Jim: 1800 27.22 detail g says that vpi_handle_by_name must accept a 
full name of a nonstatic data member of a class variable.  It does not 
indicate that the underlying simulation object must exist.
Abi; The elaboration name doesn't change along the time line, but what 
it points to does.
Chuck: Suppose that a nonstatic data member of a class variable is 
referred to as the left-hand side of an assignment, and one obtains a 
handle to it via the vpiLhs relation.
Francoise: The vpiLhs relation should definitely return a handle that 
represents the expression, even if it is not currently valid.
Chuck: We need to clarify what properties and relations of a handle can 
be accessed when it is not valid.
Jim: There are two ways in which a handle can become invalid.
-- for class_var.data_member, the handle does not go away even when it 
no longer points to an underlying simulation object.  One may still 
obtain certain properties.  And the handle can once again point to a 
simulation object when the class variable gets reassigned.
-- for a data member obtained relative to a class obj scope, the handle 
will have no further use once the class obj ceases to exist.
Francoise: It's still not clear that these are really different.
Francoise: We need to see the issues described succinctly in writing.
Steve: In particular, we should consider
-- What aliases exist?
-- What do they refer to?
-- What do they point to at any given time?
Action item: Chuck will produce a succinct written description of the 
issues.

Motion by Francoise/Michael to adjourn. ACCEPTED(unanimous).  Meeting 
ended at 1:01 pm EDT.


5.  Reviewed items with proposals.

6.  Reviewed SV-CC items with proposals (Straw poll only).

7.  Old Business

8.  Action items

   - Ongoing review of Michael and Abi's compatibility proposal.
   - Francoise and Bassam to continue work on assignment patterns.
   - Francoise to champion adding support for typed parameters to the
     typespec diagrams.
   - Abi to champion adding support for parameterized classes.
   - Abi/JimV to champion improving the ability to compare objects.
   - Steve Dovich to determine best way to deal with issues between 
versions
     of the IEEE specs.
   - SV-CC to review proposal for Item 0890.


9.  Items for consideration at the next meeting (they already have 
proposals):

   - Item 1684 vpiParent clarification needed for complex var/net 
objects

10. Next meeting
   The next SV-CC meeting will be on 02/14/2007.
   The next P1800 meeting will be on 02/20/2007.

--------------------------------------------------------- 
James H. Vellenga                            978-262-6381 
Engineering Director                   (FAX) 978-262-6636 
Cadence Design Systems, Inc.         vellenga@cadence.com 
270 Billerica Rd
Chelmsford, MA 01824-4179
"We all work with partial information." 
---------------------------------------------------------- 

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