RE: [sv-cc] P1364 meeting minutes and email ballot

From: Stuart Sutherland <stuart_at_.....>
Date: Tue May 03 2005 - 23:15:50 PDT
I appreciate Cliff's comments on my proposal for #687.  It is good to know
that someone actually read it.  However, I disagree with many of Cliff's
comments. 

------------------------------------
Cliff wants to change:

 "The 'begin_keywords and 'end_keywords directives can only be specified
outside of a module or
primitive." 

to 

"The 'begin_keywords and 'end_keywords directives can only be specified
outside of a design
element (module, macromodule, primitive or configuration)."

First, throughout the 1364 (and 1800) LRM, where module is mentioned, the
keyword macromodule is inferred as also being mentioned.  There is no need
to make an exception in this one place and mention both keywords.  Second,
Cliff is adding configurations as a "design unit".  I do not believe either
the 1364-2001 or the P1364-2005 ballot draft say that configurations are
design units.  That is why configurations were not listed in the already
approved version of these directives in the P1800 ballot draft.  If
configurations are design units, then I agree they should be listed here.
If it is the unapproved Mantis #680 proposal that makes configurations
design units, then it is the responsibility of that proposal should revise
this proposal.  It would be inappropriate to make the change here based on
the assumption that #680 will pass.  If it should not pass, that would make
this proposal incorrect.

------------------------------------
Cliff wants to change:

P1365-1995 to 1364-1995
P1365-2001 to 1364-2001
P1365-2005 to 1364-2005
P1800-2005 to 1800-2005

I agree that P1364-1995 and P1364-2001 should be changed.  Those are true
typos in the current draft of the proposal.  However, the IEEE reviewers of
the P1800 draft prior to the ballot draft explicitly stated that all
references to the proposed 1364-2005 and 1800-2005 needed to be preceded by
"P" before we could go to ballot.  Supposedly, the IEEE editors (not the
working group editors) do a search for "P1364" and "P1800" after the voting
is completed and approved, and replace them with "1364" and "1800".  This is
the same time the IEEE adds their copyright info, ISBN numbers, and such.  I
will confess, though, that I worry about the IEEE editors getting the
version name changes in this clause correct.  I am more than willing to
remove the "P" "P1364-2005" and "P1800-2005" in this proposal, and hope that
it is not red-flagged by the IEEE in the recirculation ballot.

------------------------------------
Cliff wants to change the keywords
cell
config
endconfig

To:
cellname
configuration
endconfiguration

These keywords changes are based on the as-yet-unapproved proposal for
Mantis #680.  I stated in my e-mail announcing this proposal that any
keyword changes specified in #680 would need to include necessary
modification to this proposal, P1364 Annex B, and P1800 Annex B (and P1800
26-4, if this proposal is not approved).  I do not believe it is appropriate
to modify the keywords this proposal from what is currently in 1364-2001.  I
think #680 needs to modify all places affected by any keyword changes caused
by #680, including any changes to the new clauses created by this proposal.

------------------------------------
Cliff wants to change
"SystemVerilog extends the 'begin_keywords and 'end_keywords defined in the
P1364-2005 standard..."

To:

"SystemVerilog extends the 'begin_keywords and 'end_keywords defined in the
1800-2005 Standard..."

I disagree with this change.  This proposal moves the definition of the
directives from P1800 to P1364.  This means that SystemVerilog IS extending
the P1364 definition of these directives.  SystemVerilog IS NOT extending
it's own definition of the directives.


------------------------------------
Cliff has a comment/question:

"The ballot copy of the P1800-2005 had the following paragraph, which has
apparently been removed.

"The 'begin_keywords and 'end_keywords directives can only be specified
outside of a module, primitive,
interface, program or package. The 'begin_keywords directive affects all
modules, primitives, interfaces,
programs or packages that follow the directive, even across source code file
boundaries, until the matching
'end_keywords directive is encountered.

"The P1364-2005 ballot draft specifies the legal design elements. Are we not
going to list legal
SystemVerilog design elements (including configurations) in the P1800-2005
standard?"

The proposal is to move the definition of these directives from P1800 to
P1364.  It is not possible to list the SV design units of interface, program
and package in the P1364 standard, which is why they were removed from the
proposal.  I have no objection modifying the proposal for the new text in
the P1800 standard to say that the directives include these SV design units.

-------------------------------------

Stu
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stuart Sutherland
stuart@sutherland-hdl.com
+1-503-692-0898
  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-btf@boyd.com [mailto:owner-btf@boyd.com] On 
> Behalf Of Clifford E. Cummings
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:00 PM
> To: btf@boyd.com; etf@boyd.com; sv-champions@eda.org; sv-cc@eda.org
> Subject: Re: [sv-cc] P1364 meeting minutes and email ballot
> 
> Email Vote from Cliff Cummings
> 
> At 02:53 PM 5/3/2005, Fitzpatrick, Tom wrote:
> >Hi Gang,
> >
> >I've attached the minutes from Monday's (5/2) 1364 meeting, and also 
> >last week's (4/27).
> >Also, at Monday's meeting, we decided to take an email vote on the 
> >following motions:
> >
> >687 - proposal on Mantis
> >This is the compatability pragma proposal from Stu.
> >Approve:________
> >Disapprove:__X_____
> >Abstain:________
> 
> Numerous typos and mistakes. Proposed corrections attached 
> that will change my vote to "Approve"
> 
> >  658 - Shalom suggested some amendments to the proposal. Updated 
> >proposal  to be posted by Wednesday, 5/4.
> >Approve:_______
> >Disapprove:____X____
> >Abstain:________
> 
> I have also attached some corrections and proposed changes 
> that will change my vote to "Approve"
> 
> >Because of the amendment to 658, email voting deadline is end-of-day 
> >Thursday, 5/5. Results to be announced at teleconference on 5/6.
> >
> >Next 1364 meeting:
> >      Friday, 5/6
> >      Noon EDT (9am PDT)
> >      Dial-in: 888-742-8686
> >      Int'l: 303-928-2600
> >      Passcode: 8179393
> >Thanks,
> >-Fitz
> >
> >Tom Fitzpatrick
> >Verification Technologist
> >Mentor Graphics Corporation
> ><mailto:tfitz@model.com>tfitz@model.com
> >W: (978)448-8797
> >C:  (978)337-7641
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Cliff Cummings - Sunburst Design, Inc.
> 14314 SW Allen Blvd., PMB 501, Beaverton, OR 97005
> Phone: 503-641-8446 / FAX: 503-641-8486
> cliffc@sunburst-design.com / www.sunburst-design.com Expert 
> Verilog, SystemVerilog, Synthesis and Verification Training
> 
Received on Tue May 3 23:16:03 2005

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