RE: [sv-cc] P1364 meeting minutes and email ballot

Hi, All -

Corrections, follow-up and additional comments below.

At 11:15 PM 5/3/2005, you wrote:
>I appreciate Cliff's comments on my proposal for #687.  It is good to know
>that someone actually read it.  However, I disagree with many of Cliff's
>comments.
>
>------------------------------------
>Cliff wants to change:
>
>  "The 'begin_keywords and 'end_keywords directives can only be specified
>outside of a module or
>primitive."
>
>to
>
>"The 'begin_keywords and 'end_keywords directives can only be specified
>outside of a design
>element (module, macromodule, primitive or configuration)."
>
>First, throughout the 1364 (and 1800) LRM, where module is mentioned, the
>keyword macromodule is inferred as also being mentioned.  There is no need
>to make an exception in this one place and mention both keywords.  Second,
>Cliff is adding configurations as a "design unit".  I do not believe either
>the 1364-2001 or the P1364-2005 ballot draft say that configurations are
>design units.  That is why configurations were not listed in the already
>approved version of these directives in the P1800 ballot draft.  If
>configurations are design units, then I agree they should be listed here.
>If it is the unapproved Mantis #680 proposal that makes configurations
>design units, then it is the responsibility of that proposal should revise
>this proposal.  It would be inappropriate to make the change here based on
>the assumption that #680 will pass.  If it should not pass, that would make
>this proposal incorrect.

Design elements are currently defined in P1364-2006-Draft 6, in section 
13.1.1. You are right that macromodules are not included (I thought they 
were - I will drop macromodule from my configurations proposal, too), but 
configurations are included, and they should be included for the 
`begin_keywords directives.

>------------------------------------
>Cliff wants to change:
>
>P1365-1995 to 1364-1995
>P1365-2001 to 1364-2001
>P1365-2005 to 1364-2005
>P1800-2005 to 1800-2005
>
>I agree that P1364-1995 and P1364-2001 should be changed.  Those are true
>typos in the current draft of the proposal.  However, the IEEE reviewers of
>the P1800 draft prior to the ballot draft explicitly stated that all
>references to the proposed 1364-2005 and 1800-2005 needed to be preceded by
>"P" before we could go to ballot.  Supposedly, the IEEE editors (not the
>working group editors) do a search for "P1364" and "P1800" after the voting
>is completed and approved, and replace them with "1364" and "1800".  This is
>the same time the IEEE adds their copyright info, ISBN numbers, and such.  I
>will confess, though, that I worry about the IEEE editors getting the
>version name changes in this clause correct.  I am more than willing to
>remove the "P" "P1364-2005" and "P1800-2005" in this proposal, and hope that
>it is not red-flagged by the IEEE in the recirculation ballot.

I was confused because the examples all drop the "P" from the comments. I 
guess the argument is that the examples are informative so they can be 
technically inaccurate (but will actually be accurate in the released 
specification) (?)

>------------------------------------
>Cliff wants to change the keywords
>cell
>config
>endconfig
>
>To:
>cellname
>configuration
>endconfiguration
>
>These keywords changes are based on the as-yet-unapproved proposal for
>Mantis #680.  I stated in my e-mail announcing this proposal that any
>keyword changes specified in #680 would need to include necessary
>modification to this proposal, P1364 Annex B, and P1800 Annex B (and P1800
>26-4, if this proposal is not approved).  I do not believe it is appropriate
>to modify the keywords this proposal from what is currently in 1364-2001.  I
>think #680 needs to modify all places affected by any keyword changes caused
>by #680, including any changes to the new clauses created by this proposal.

We should pass Mantis #680 first (if it is going to pass) so we can include 
the corrections in Mantis #687 without introducing a passed proposal that 
will need further Mantis corrections. I have pointed out where the changes 
will be needed.

>------------------------------------
>Cliff wants to change
>"SystemVerilog extends the 'begin_keywords and 'end_keywords defined in the
>P1364-2005 standard..."
>
>To:
>
>"SystemVerilog extends the 'begin_keywords and 'end_keywords defined in the
>1800-2005 Standard..."
>
>I disagree with this change.  This proposal moves the definition of the
>directives from P1800 to P1364.  This means that SystemVerilog IS extending
>the P1364 definition of these directives.  SystemVerilog IS NOT extending
>it's own definition of the directives.

My mistake, I thought this was a typo.

>------------------------------------
>Cliff has a comment/question:
>
>"The ballot copy of the P1800-2005 had the following paragraph, which has
>apparently been removed.
>
>"The 'begin_keywords and 'end_keywords directives can only be specified
>outside of a module, primitive,
>interface, program or package. The 'begin_keywords directive affects all
>modules, primitives, interfaces,
>programs or packages that follow the directive, even across source code file
>boundaries, until the matching
>'end_keywords directive is encountered.
>
>"The P1364-2005 ballot draft specifies the legal design elements. Are we not
>going to list legal
>SystemVerilog design elements (including configurations) in the P1800-2005
>standard?"
>
>The proposal is to move the definition of these directives from P1800 to
>P1364.  It is not possible to list the SV design units of interface, program
>and package in the P1364 standard, which is why they were removed from the
>proposal.  I have no objection modifying the proposal for the new text in
>the P1800 standard to say that the directives include these SV design units.

As the proposal stands, interfaces, programs and packages cannot be 
surrounded with keyword directives. It occurs to me that the same is true 
for configurations and we may want to include each of these design elements 
in configurations, too. Comments?

Regards - Cliff

>-------------------------------------
>
>Stu
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Stuart Sutherland
>stuart@sutherland-hdl.com
>+1-503-692-0898

----------------------------------------------------
Cliff Cummings - Sunburst Design, Inc.
14314 SW Allen Blvd., PMB 501, Beaverton, OR 97005
Phone: 503-641-8446 / FAX: 503-641-8486
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